"Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby jason morton » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:07 pm

Ron- I sincerely apologize for not expressing myself better in my original post and for offending you previously. My kite credentials/ability, yours, and uncle Fred's obviously are not the issue. Deer Creek is an ADVANCED kite spot. This is FACT. Ralph has some very good points. We are a very small, tight-knit community and our success so far has come through self-policing, and close group involvement. This community is growing exponentially. With that come obvious challenges. This kite school will absolutely fail without the support from from the kite community. And 99.9% of the kite community does not use this site anymore. They are on the KWA page on Facebook. The UWA really is a non-entity in regards to the kiting community. It's been that way for a long time. Hence the mass exodus to the KWA FB page. So when this came up I felt necessary to respond, albeit inappropriately in my initial response. In my opinion an experienced, thoughtful kite instructor would teach a student to kite at Utah Lake, get them to a satisfactory level to handle Deer Creek then continue from there. This has been discussed extensively. Nobody needs an IKO certification to have basic common sense. And why has Rob not responded here thus far? If he plans on putting our access at risk I want to know what he has planned to give back to our community? Does he plan on working with the State Park to improve the conditions of the beach? Sponsor a beach cleanup? I know kite schools in the gorge are involved in such activities. The impact he makes could have serious consequences for us. He has shown a complete lack of respect to not involve the kite community. We are the ones who will still be here after he is long gone.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby John Guay » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:13 pm

The one thing that we can all agree on is that we want to preserve access at Deer Creek and all of the other kiting locations in our region. Up to this point we ( the local kiters who frequent Deer Creek) have established positive relations with the the Park Ranger and we have done a good job policing ourselves. I also think we have tried to educate kiters who are new to Deer Creek and those who are new to the sport as to the specific challenges of kiting Deer Creek. I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone approached the Park to become the authorized kite school concession. My understanding is this would require liability insurance and hopefully a professional set up with jet ski or support boat, pfd's etc. I think that is a good thing. I don't know Rob but I am glad to hear he has the endorsement of Brad and Jon. I would encourage Rob to come to DCBB and meet the crew, start a dialogue and address our concerns.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby RonBert » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:26 pm

Thank you for apology Jason and I hope you accept mine for setting a rough course. You raise good points and unanswered questions, and those are for Rob to address. If unintentionally Rob made a misstep in not connecting with the local DC community; I am suspect of the reception he may have gotten. He may have a different opinion regarding conditions at DC towards instruction there, and believed his approach was appropriate. He did however advertise on the UWA web site, seemingly from nowhere, and I too was somewhat caught by surprise by that. So enough said; by me anyway…Now I really need to go find my wife’s hairdryer and burn the valves off my 14m’s bladder. May you find good winds…
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby rob umstead » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:37 pm

When I originally posted about the school I knew there would be some back lash and my original plan was not to comment and get involved with the drama. I never expected it to get this crazy. It feels a bit like the NW kite forum.

Facts about me: I have been riding at Deer Creek since 2005. The first time I launched there was with Jon Manwaring from Island beach long before BWB was used. The first few years I did not go there to often because I spent most of my time in Oregon. In the past couple years I have been riding there more often. I do not go there for the Social Scene; it’s just not my thing. I go, rig-up, ride and go home. I have introduced myself to some of the folks along the way.

Here are the facts on my school. It has been 3 years in the making. To operate legally in the Park (and thus stay in good graces with the park officials), there are many bureaucratic hoops one must jump thru. Getting all of this in place was no easy or inexpensive task This Red Tape is one of the reasons a Kite School has not been done already.

I am a one man show with no plans of hiring numerous instructors and over running the beach with lessons. My students will be under my direct supervision with safety always a top priority. My goal is to teach people how to safely kite and enjoy the sport so that new users to the established launch are not jeopardizing its future. Preventing things like kites in the power lines and unfortunate accidents is the first priority of the School.

As for being on the State Park Radar, BWB is already there. Park officials are well aware of its usage. There are plans to eventually develop the spot and most likely make it a pay to use facility with proper parking, restrooms, water access ect. It is not my goal to be the “voice of the kite community” when this development happens, but I would be happy to help where I can. The State is also aware of individuals charging for lessons without the proper permission and permits. They are not happy with this practice and are looking at ways to prevent it. .None of these things is a result of me establishing Uinta Kiting.

I respect all the work that has been done so far to make BWB what it is and I do not intend to do anything to put this at risk. I have only good intentions for the community as a whole and apologize for not taking all the steps some people would have like to have seen with the regulars. I want this school to be a "positive" for the local scene and I think that being on the up and up with the State is a big step in that direction.

There is no such thing as a perfectly hazard free kiting spot. The objective is to minimize risks thru knowledge and good decisions. I agree that having a new student launch from the grass and then walk directly up wind thru the bushes would be a dangerous endeavor and my students would never be tasked with such a challenge. However once out thru these bushes (at current water levels) there is plenty of space to launch downwind of experienced riders, and the wind becomes more side shore. It is a perfectly acceptable teaching spot. We have all seen it done here numerous times before.

As I said before I did not originally intend to comment to any criticism on this forum but I am feeling a little called out. This will be my last post on the subject but I am happy to discuss it further with anyone one on one. Please feel free to speak with me privately with any future concerns you have with how I am operating, or if there is something I might be able to do to enhance everyone’s experience at Deer Creek. Here’s to a windy summer, I look forward to meeting more of you. Happy Kiting
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby Leo Chan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:30 pm

I am just posting this from a business prospective. DC has about 3 months out of a year when wind is good enough for kiting and the water temperature is not a concern. For beinners, it really is a shitty location to use as a primary location to learn on. I have to admit, like any experienced windsurfers, we just assumed we know how to kite because it is a lot easier to kite than windsurf. So, I never took any formal other than the couple of flying lessons I had from my friend back in 2002. After two full seasons of snowkiting, I was still having hard time kiting on water by going to Lincoln Beach. It wasn't until my trip back to Dewey that I finally got it. There is nothing like warm, flat water and consistent wind that makes learning to kite easier. To me, DC is anything but that. So, the number of days when it is ideal for learning how to kite at DC is about 15 to 20 a year at most. That's a lot of down time for the equipments. I hope you didn't pay too much for the troubles needed to get the school going. You need to get a lot of students each year just to break even. I just don't see this as a viable business operation.

I guess I do have a second point I am trying to make. You mentioned that you will make sure your students are doing it the right way. How are you going to make sure that they will never be in a situation/condition where your students are not going to be in the way or create dangfers for other kiters? Whether you like it or not, when you kite in a location like DC, you became part of the community because we have to deal with any potential issues crated by new comers. When one of your student's kite have problem, we can't just stand there and not help. I guess what I am trying to say is it is important to give the ones who gave a lot to make the site what it is today a little heads up when you want to create a business on it.

As John mentioned, it is inevitable. But I just thought it could be thought through a little better in the planning process.

The number one concern all long time riders have is always safety. I hope that message remains.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:19 am

Rob,

The reason there has never been a kite school, at DC is because the community decided it was best for us all, not because of the red tape, or difficulty, to achieve the "proper permits".

We never expected any kiter to open shop, and not share their intentions, with the rest of the community, this action caught everyone off guard and has obviously had repercussions.

The community established this spot, and is aware of its plans for the future, many of us were instrumental in the planing process.

You should come and see me on the beach, or get my number from Saxe, your kite school already has a negative, vibe, and the community is disappointed that it was circumvented. If you would like to attempt to rectifying this impact, I would recommend a much better conversation then providing explanations of your credentials, goals, plan etc...than basically saying case closed, you will not respond...this will not go far in gaining any support.

Your actions are of course being called out, regardless of your status, or experience, and I would assume your ability to work with the community, will directly affect the success of your endeavor.

Good luck...go soxs
Last edited by bordy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:25 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7583

DC sight discussion
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:28 am

Thread bout teaching at DC..

Including Brads opinion when he lived here..

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7667&hilit=BWB+teaching

And this one...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9233&hilit=Teaching+at+DC

And this from Kenny.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7664
Last edited by bordy on Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:40 am

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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby bordy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:44 am

And info about the improvements..and our interaction...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9287&p=24604&hilit=BWB+Kenny#p24604
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby Todd Jacques » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:46 pm

First session at 3 mile with hornbeck at da Gorge.
Thanks jason for starting conversation. Hello brad, see you up here.
Safety is a major goal. But without a launch it wont matter.
I am and have been concerned about our launch taken away. Yes taken away. It is private property and it is all we have.
Rib has goid endorsements from well known locals. But the rest of us are in the dark and I think nervous about the attention the launch gets.

The slider has to go. Anybody else see a issue with it? Where was the vote on that. I said no and the response I got is I will move it when it becomes a issue.

I think one issue we have is we do not have a formal kite group. We are fractured. How can vote on things like this?
How can we approach land owners and state regulators? Facebook?
All IMHO
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Re: "Uinta Kiting" Utah's New Kite School

Postby KrisGreenough » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:41 pm

I'm still new to the kiting community here in SLC, and I understand everyones concern about launching at DC. As a beginner myself who has had some bad experiences there I suggest this: Why not just operate the school off a jet ski that works out of the nearby marina and do setups with drift launches. I took lessons and still kite in the SF bay and this is how all the kite schools out there operate. You an an instructor head out on a jet ski to a far away area pump and launch on the water. It's very safe since with a jet ski you can get to the student very quickly, you have all the safety gear, and you learn the in's and out's of kiting before you try launching from the beach. It also allows for faster learning since you don't have to spend all your time walking up a beach and getting worn out. You can just head down wind until you run out of space. I honestly cannot imagine trying to learn by launching straight off the beach or with a SUP. Anything else seems ridiculous to me. You absolutely have to learn the basics like kite control, self rescue, punching out and other things before you launch off the shore, especially at a place like DC.

After a few sessions on the water the instructor can then judge whether or not the student is ready to learn beach launching procedures (maybe at another safer location line Orem or SSB). This would not entirely eliminate the newb factor at the launch but would significantly reduce it. We all have to have that first launch from the beach and being prepared is the best way to stay safe.
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