Powder Mountain Access Meeting

[Augie]

One of the bullets says the following:

Unique opportunity-most ski areas don’t have the terrain/ most kite areas don’t have lodge facilities.

[Kenny]

LES,

I have done 50 ft drops and land straight down with no floating or anything to pull me up, after the mistake I made doing tricks. Worst case scenerio, lines hit someone is pretty harmless since everyone is wearing thick coats and pants. I have a had lines hit me in all directions, full power strenght lines during the competition warm up. It didn't even cut me or touch my skin, just push me and the kite crash. I might be missing something out that might has some danger or more safer. Jacob Buzianis
Jake,

People are still talking about the crash you had at the Snowkite Masters last year. I don't know if snowkiting is any safer, but I do know that you are bullet-proof!

Kenny

[lesvierra]

Did I mention the Snow is almost here.

I thought you were just really excited for winter. The snow really is coming... by this weekend.

[lesvierra]

Here is a paper presentation Auggie can use or modify if appropriate. He's got the feel for what needs to be said, but this can be used for the presentation or generate additional comments. All slides are paper power point slides and look good. If appropriate I can add background snowkite images for eye candy.

(slide)
Powder Mountain Snowkiting
Presentation 9/18/06
By Auggie

(slide)
Snowkiting at Powder Mountain
• Snowkiting
• Safety
• Why Snowkite at Powder Mountain?
• Potential Benefits for Powder Mountain
• Liability/Ticketing Ideas
• Discussion

(slide)
Snowkiting
• What is snowkiting
– Ski or Snowboard
– Easier to Learn on snow than on water
– Need Kite, Harness, Helmet
• Growing Fast
– Only 7-8 years old
– Participated in just about every snow covered country
– Offered at European ski areas
• Utah already is world renowned for Snowkiting.
– Three Kite Manufacturers listed below use pictures and videos taken from places such as Skyline and Strawberry Reservoir for product promotion.
• Commercial Marketing Efforts
– Kite Manufacturers to Name a few*
• Ozone, Bestkiteboarding, Slingshot
– Schools to Name a few*
• Utah – Utah Kite Boarding, Superfly Inc.,
• Out of state – Colorado Kiteforce, South Padre Island Kiteboarding, Windpower Sports, Wind Over Water, Stormboarding, Lakawa, Lake Tahoe Kite Boarding
– Local and Out-of-state Outfitters are offering accommodation/lesson packed deals to Skyline.
*(cuts are attached for reference)

(slide)
Safety
• Progression
– Trainer Kite Time
– Lessons
– Progress Small kite to Larger Kite
• Kite Depower and Release
– Kites have at least 3 ways to depower
– Kites can be completely released from Kiter.
• Landings can be smooth and soft.
• Wind speed and ability determines kite size.

(slide)
Why Kite at Powder Mountain
• High Elevation with exposure to prevailing winds
• Historically windy area
• Potentially Three areas conducive to Kiting
• Closer for many locals that Skyline
• Kiters can ski if there is no wind.
• Great Snow
• Long Season
• Onsite Accommodations

(slide)
Benefits To Powder Mountain
• More skier visits-family, friends accompanying kiters are intangible but realistic.
• If the wind dies, kiters can go skiing
• Attracts non-kiters -as many as 25 people watching at times
• Free publicity-photo shoots, videos, internet, magazine articles
• Unique opportunity-most ski areas don’t have the terrain/ most kite areas don’t have lodge facilities. Also, fairly windy at Hidden Lake.
• Kite festivals-Skyline Drive in Fairview Utah had 150 kiters last year plus spectators. Event televised on all 4 local TV stations plus newspapers. Professional riders from around the world attended.
• Kite lessons-expensive- $150-$200 per person for 3-4 hours (see attachments)
• Internal or Turn key operation possible
• Kite sales-new kites cost $700-$1700. Trainer kites and Videos.
• Terrain Park- lots of interest. Sell banner advertising on ramps
• Designated kite area will be off limits to snowmobiles

(slide)
Liability/Ticketing
• Insurance-Additional cost? Liabilities? Kiter Waiver Form
• Kite Pass-What type? If it is a punch pass, can it be converted to day pass
• Kite unique hazards should be printed on pass
• Punch Pass? Ideal for the kiters when the wind dies and access in and out of area.
• Posted Sign with Information, Disclaimer and Regulations
Discussion

[lesvierra]

I posted the presentation slides in the album section of this forum. Auggie hasnt had a chance to look at them (no computer), I will drop them off to him. thanks for the all the comments.

[lesvierra]

Nice Job Auggie!! Well done!

[Jacob Buzianis]

What's verdict?

[Augie]

The owners said that it was an informative meeting and answered lots of questions that they had about kiting. They were very interested in the safety systems and if you could ditch the kite if you had to. I told them I hadn't ever heard of a snowkiter ditching their kite.
The big issue is still insurance and they will check on coverage and cost. I was assuming that we could still ride there and wasn't going to even ask the question until someone asked if we could still ride there. The owners said that they will let us know after they talk to the insurance company.
The root of the their reluctance and maybe why they don't want to commit fully is the status of the sale of Powder Mountain. It is almost useless to ask because everyone gives you a different version of the sale or potential sale. They expressed the opinion that maybe they shouldn't put a lot of effort or money into something they may or may not benefit from. They expect some sort of development to probably take the area where we currently ride but who knows when that would be. I told them it really doesn't affect us much because we will just move further out and there is lots of room. I also got the impression that the punch pass didn't appeal to them as much as a kite pass that you could upgrade to a ski pass if the wind dies. Kite festivals were also discussed and someone from the Telefair event already contacted them independently this year. I told them that people are already planning their ski vacations and there was talk about Powder Mountain as being a ski/kite destination on the internet already.

Don't worry, I have been up there long enough to know things move real slow and might move even slower with the potential sale in the future. However, I am sure that we will be riding there this winter.

[stokes]

I would like express my desire for winter to show early as well. I am so excited for the snow this year. I know that you all have pretty much finished the leg work in the Powder Mountian gig, but if there is anything else you need help/numbers for let me know.


Stokes

[Jacob Buzianis]

There some more trees I would like to cut down to open up for North wind days up there. I think right now there probably already over a foot of snow and more coming tonight. Is that correct Augie?

[lesvierra]

To add to Auggies comments about the meeting, my take is:

1. Insurance is still up in the air. They made it work last year for awhile. This season is a new season, possibly new issues. The kite prohibiting issue is the possibility of additional cost of the insurance to allow kiting. Maybe no increase, maybe they'll see an increase.

2. If they see an increase in their insurance costs, can profit generated from kiting cover this additional cost. I took it that this is their main concern right here and right now. A handfull of kiters are probably not going to be able to even come close.

Auggie did a great job and is very in tune to what is going on at Powder Mountain.

One additional comment. Let me step way out on my own on this one and be easy on me here. And this has nothing to do with Auggies presentation or direction, something somewhere else. I think the next thing that should happen is people like telefair, Best, Slingshot, ozone should contact powder mountain. If it fits into their marketing efforts, coordinate demo/exhibitions at Powder Mountain. I think there was some interest in telefairs request. I think they would also be interested in kite companies as well. The seemed like they would entertain the idea of these types of groups that would come with their own insurance. I think it would generate alot of interest for kiting from the public and Powder Mountain and one might be able to put an estimate on the increased tickets sold because of the demo/exhibition.

[Kenny]

The nice thing about a kiting event at Powder Mountain is that you would not have to sit around and wait for the wind. The only downsides I see are that the riding area is pretty small compared to Skyline and the wind is less frequent (that is my observation, I may be wrong). If riders could be ferried over to the Flat Top area, it would be an ideal location.

[Augie]

To answer the question about snow coverage-there was jsut enough for the die hards to hike and make turns. The coverage was fairly consistent though and more on the way.
I think that Les is right about commercial interests contacting Powder Mountain independetly though. It seemed that their major concern was if the potential increased insurance costs would be offset by the few kiters that show up. I kept trying to sell them on the idea that early season advertising would allow out of state destination skiers to plan their vacations now, but it fell on deaf ears I guess. I also kept telling them that kiters bring along friends and family, but that those extra tickets sold would be impossible to measure. So, anyone who thinks they can get a kite festival or somthing else going up there give them a call. They did seem excited about the Telefair proposal.

I heard what Jake said about those pesky trees in the north favored area but those were not originally included when we asked permission to cut some down. Maybe next year. I don't want to push that issue too much but I could forsee a yearly cleanup of a few areas.

[windzup]

Ozone has been working together with the Telefair tour for a few seasons now, and we've found that their onslope tele clinics are a welcome format at Ski areas and have allowed us to open the doors to potential Snowkiting by offering clinics where feasible. I am completely behind Telefairs efforts and am letting them open the ground work with the resorts on this years tour.

I think that kite companies that only have a commercial interest in sales and not in the true growth of the sport could be a negative point, when mixing with ski area politicians. Namely I think the subject should continualy be approached on an informative and educational stance, and one of the last things we need is companies desperate for recognition to burn our relationships with local mountains.
Yes I am saying that out of state companies with no vested interest in the long term growth of Utah Snowkiting should not approach the resort. Thankfully we have Augie on the inside to keep us all informed and lets work diligently to keep positive pressure on the resort without rocking the boat.

[lesvierra]

Brian, you're one of the guys I respect most for promoting snowkiting in Utah. You have the talent and inteligence to keep things going in the right direction. You know more about the progression and promotion of snowkiting than I'll ever know. Thats is why I have to go in my back room and kick myself a couple times when I disagree with you. I think I was batting about 50% when working with Auggie. Half the time Auggie was trying to pull me back in the right direction (thanks). Good to probable chance I may be off here.

But for the sake of debate; Powder Mountain is a business. They are not going to benefit by being sheltered from the snowkiting business. As small class/po dunk (or best kept) that Powder Mountain may seem, the are savy enough to handle solicitation.

I think that kite companies that only have a commercial interest in sales and not in the true growth of the sport could be a negative point, when mixing with ski area politicians.

I think that kite companies that have a commercial interest in kite sales will benefit from "true growth in the sport", this year, next year, and years to come. Its worth these companies' time to approach Powder Mountain in a professional way with interest in the "true growth of the sport". If it comes across to Powder Mountain as negative, I think they can handle it, and look at the next offer they get for evaluation. Powder Mountain needs to see the interest and potential benefit.

Namely I think the subject should continualy be approached on an informative and educational stance, and one of the last things we need is companies desperate for recognition to burn our relationships with local mountains.

I think you are mostly right here. But I think the information and education should come from the Utah kiting community under Auggies direction. He is in tune with Powder Mountain, with you, with alot of the other guys. But information and education is only the start. These companies can potentially set the ball in motion. Thats usually how things work in the US industry?

I think a little competition between kiting companies might not be a bad thing either to keep things rolling. It may hurt Powder Mountains perception of the sport and might close some doors, but I think it will raise Powder Mountains interest in the sport and open new doors and new possibilities. Competion will bring out the best in you and the other companies and hopefully kite companies would combine their interests and Powder Mountains interests for a positive result.

And quite frankly, nothing we do or say here is going to make a difference here right? I mean if I'm the promotional manger for ozone, best or slingshot, wouldnt I call powder mountain anyways if I were trying to set up a tour and was interested in Powder Mountain. I think the best we (kiting communtity) can do is support the educational and informative format that you spoke of.