Is this what we need to work towards?

[MikE mAy]

ok, i'll bite. signs in utah at key beaches would only be a mitigation activity IMHO. imagine if a kiteboarder or bystander got hurt or killed because of kite boarding activity. now imagine if that happened at a state park, beach, or other fee for use area. imagine the rules, laws, and probably banning of kiteboarding at those locations. all it takes is for channel 13 (who listens to the police broadband) to show up at an ambulance call for an injury to kill things. i think we need to look at each specific area and work to mitigate the risk at those launches. DCBWB seems to be a risky spot. there is high visibility from the road and ease of access to the beach. i think a sign there would be a great idea. it would not be rules, but suggested info to bystanders and suggested information to newbies, and visiting riders. it might actually take the self policing burden off the riders. however, the moment we post a sign the land owner will be sure to inquire about what's going on, liability risk, etc. so, a sign would come with the risk of getting that area shut down. Same thing with Lincoln, Lindon, and Willard. these are all state parks and fee for use areas. the moment we post a sign there will be someone asking about it and we would be brining attention to ourselves.

however, with the risk of the eye of scrutiny if we have our shit together, we could come out ahead. If we approach land owners and state park officials with a clear plan, rules for safety, and suggested launch and land techniques that have been researched we would be looked at as authorities and hopefully they would take us seriously and give us the respect deserved to work towards a mutually beneficial use agreement.

so, to all the hippy kiteboarders, i agree- freedom is why i kiteboard. however you must recognize that at all of our launches with the exception of perhaps burmiester, rush, and some backcountry spots there are bystanders. with bystanders comes a relationship between kiteboarder and bystander. much like outlaw skateboarding at a downtown ledge or something. you are on someone else's property and possibly damaging it. its fine if you want to do it anyway, but given enough use and visibility by the owners, they install pegs.... we don't want pegs at our kite launches. i agree we need to keep it free as long as possible, but its not the old days where on a good day there were 12 kites up at lincoln. there are now upwards of 25 i would say and this is only going to grow. there WILL be a time we outgrow our launches until we find new ones.


just my $.02. perhaps it would be a good move to have someone draft up a sign just in case and seeing as how we are an "organization" vote on placement if we see it necessary. that way we don't force the issue too soon, but still have a plan of attack ready to implement when the situation warrants it.

also, it seems that the boys up in Hood River have a great working relationship with the local government up there. i think they even have a council set up as a liaison between kiteboarders and the Gov. i think the guys name is Forrest that works on it. check out the forum, as i know you guys do because I've seen don and marty post there. they might be able to offer some perspective and advice.....

[bordy]

Don,

Really Its this simple, You want to rip it"fast and lose"... We all understand this. You have made your opinion known now lets give others a chance to share their thoughts with out just Saying Bullsheoot, I am right you are wrong to them......there has been bystanders injuried from kiting at DC, Stokes put his kite right into a family making several of the children scream and cry and wrapping lines around the Mom he hit one of the kids hard enough that it not only knocked him to the ground but left a red mark on his face, I sprinted to grab the kite right before it powered up again, and then spend a half hour smoothing it out, There was also a crash into a fisherman at the old launch, and at lincoln we have had kites come down on (non kite like)people on the beach and in the water, I have seen kites crash on bystanders at desperation flats and watched several kites blow into traffic there? I alomst hurt two girls the other day at deer creek they were flying a trainer kite right in the launch and landing area, the wind lulled my kite came down right on them And then a gust hit and powered my kite back up with lines around them If there wasn't another kiter there to grab my kite things could have gone bad, Whos fault is that? Is it mine for trying to land my kite in the launch and landing area??? is it the girls for flying a trainer kite right there in the launch? is it the instructor for placing their student right there with a trainer???? This is why having some structor at our sites would be a huge asset, saying the vigilance of kiters is the way to go is useless if there are no local kiters there on the beach.

I again would like to open this thread to others to voice their ideas and opinons, this is a very important topic that needs to be adressed.

Please share your thoughts...Do you think we need to consider Visual Aids for our kites spots?
Do you think placing signs is going to create Issues or solve them?
Is this some thing we can doing amoung the communiyty with out involing any outside agenceys?

[Marty Lowe]

some signs,
and ideas about posting them.

Temporary signs, sound intriguing
Just there, on the days we are there.

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 7&p=648063

[Steven Nyhus]

Good thread, and good discussion. Good points, and good ideas. We all love our sports whether it be kiting or windsurfing and there is a real possibility that due to accident, injury, or death, that we will loose the opportunity to do what we love in the state of Utah. If I am not mistaken, all of the lakes and waterways in the state are under state control and they could just do a blanket ban to kiting or windsurfing. Being proactive now in training and education is a great idea. Whether it be through signs or just educating people on the beach to hazards and dangers, I think it needs to be done. All it is going to take is one idiot taking out him\herself and some innocent bystander, and this discussion will be pointless. It is not just kiting either. What would happen if a windsurfer is trying to beach start with a bunch of kids in the water and a gust pulls the sail out of their hands and the mast slams someone on the head killing them? Or comes in too close to shore at a high rate of speed and hits a swimmer? (we have all seen the damage a big fin can to to a carp at UL). I would rather be able to sail and enjoy my sport with some rules and regulations, than not be able to do it at all. I think it is everyone's responsibility and duty to protect the access that we have and to insure that we can enjoy it far into the future.

[RickHeninger]

Ok... So, while I was reading the previous posts I have been thinking about the "Temporary" signs...

Because I agree... Too much permanent posting at sites can cause unnecessary alarm. Especially when people aren't kiting at a site...

So, I'd suggest distributing an agreed upon PORTABLE/TEMPORARY stab in the dirt simple/portable size type sign that most kiters could keep as part of their "quiver" or "gear" so that when there are more than one or two kiters, somebody is going to have their sign posted at the ideal spot(s) at that site for the day. The sign consisting of a type of verbage from a Kiting committee which sounds like from all the great posts on this that it would be easy to create. Peter is of course the hook up for that. I'd offer that the UWA could sponsor some signage. I'm sure wealthier corporations/individuals out there in our community of kiters could support it even better than we could.

I have an idea, how about car magnet signs? (maybe it's already been mentioned, I didn't look at the link)... Whenever you're kiting in a spot slap a car magnet sign on the side of your vehicle in a conspicuous place. If every kiter car had a saftey magnet on the side. People would get the message... General or site specific info... Site specific would cause for multiple different signs... So signs for sticking in the dirt and others magnetized to cars... Site info and safety info for kiters and bystanders...

I agree with points from all the posts... We don't want bad, unnecessary attention to kiting, but temporary signs would leave when the riders do but still provide the important RESPONSIBLE information... Also, we don't exactly have a "3rd Ave" site here... Windsurfing... Uh... There are definitely not going to be windsurfing signs... We've done without them for 90 years... We can make it another 90 without em'.

[jason morton]

With the numbers of kiters growing rapidly something needs to be addressed before we lose access. I'm not sure whether signs are a good idea or not. I do know we need to be very proactive in talking to new kiters launching ay BWB and Willard. And I think teaching beginners to kite at Deer Creek is just plain stupid!!!! That really sets us up for a real disaster. Why can't you just teach at Lincoln or SSB? Trainer kites no problem. A kiter that can stay upwind and want some coaching no problem. But to take a kiter out knowing they will be going downwind seems dangerous as hell. BAN KITEBOARDING LESSONS AT DEER CREEK!!!!!

[Don Losee]

This has been a great topic to post about. I admit, I have been messing with you. I have been going out of my way to show another side of this issue.

Posts like, "Kite Hippy"
And quotes from Monty Python "Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. " Are meant to be funny!

If they did not make you laugh, I hope at least got you to think what will happen if "The Man" makes kiteboarding rules for us.

BUT SERIOUSLY. Now. We should hold a meeting, to make a plan of attack, for when the government tries to step in. I tried to host such a meeting a couple of months ago. (small turn out) I make my living from kiteboarding here in Utah. I am committed to be a team player or leader in this fight to keep kite spots open. A "mandate from the masses" (us members of UWA), we need a plan we can all agree on. Let's meet. We can meet at my home, near DCBB.
Don

[Marty Lowe]

The concensus appears to be,
We need to be proactive.
I propose we start drafting a sign.
The shorter the better.
Let's start with spectator info only.
Then post it as a pdf file here on UWA site,
Everyone can print it off and place it on you cars at the busy spots.
When we have perfected the verbage, after timely changes. We will have something we can posat up perminantly, iff needed
Start your drafts..
(If there is agreement on this process)

[Marty Lowe]

If we can self police our newbies better,
We may be able to avoid signage for that group.
And just worry about spectators.

[Don Losee]

I agree with Marty. Let's focus on spectators.
I prepose a 100 foot notice.
Example; Kite Spectators. Please stay 100 feet away from kiters while kites are in the air. The kites and kite lines can hurt you. Thanks. Utah Windriders Association.

[Don Losee]

Peter
What would it cost UWA to have you do some simple signs that are the mobile folding type used for real estate open houses?
Don

[John Guay]

This a great thread and a big ol can of worms with no easy answers. I do think it is a good idea to post information for kiters who are new to the location. One the first things you learn is to know the conditions before you kite or windsurf a new beach. It seams like a good idea to help provide information which is usefull. There have been quite a few new inexperienced kiters showing up at Deer Creek and a little signage might be helpful. Maybe we can update the beach info on this website as well. Got a go now... looks like and evening session at Lincoln

[Ralph Morrison]

With the numbers of kiters growing rapidly something needs to be addressed before we lose access. I'm not sure whether signs are a good idea or not. I do know we need to be very proactive in talking to new kiters launching ay BWB and Willard. And I think teaching beginners to kite at Deer Creek is just plain stupid!!!! That really sets us up for a real disaster. Why can't you just teach at Lincoln or SSB? Trainer kites no problem. A kiter that can stay upwind and want some coaching no problem. But to take a kiter out knowing they will be going downwind seems dangerous as hell. BAN KITEBOARDING LESSONS AT DEER CREEK!!!!!

I agree with everything that Jason said. I don't think a permanent sign at BWB is the right way to go. A fold up sign that could be parked on the trail is a better idea. Even if it only said "If you've never launched here before, find and talk to someone experienced with this area to learn it's issues!" If someone approaches you, you can quiz them to find out if they are capable of kiting there.

With our limited kiting sites I'm concerned with how fast the numbers are growing. The more crowded it is, the likelyhood of something happening increases, and the overall enjoyment goes down. I agree with Jason that BWB isn't a place for beginner lessons. I don't think we should make it easy to get into the sport. A two hour lesson isn't adequate. Like they say, "A little knowledge is dangerous". I would like to see lessons that are multi day that are more in depth and are a bigger commitment. Hopefully the instructor would make the same money by charging more money to less people.

[Todd Jacques]

I am stoked this is finally getting talked about, nice job marty! You know where I stand! I believe we need to unite and come up with a common set of rules for our sport. I do believe we could loose some of our spots if we are not proactive about policing ourselves.
I think we should plan to form a commite to make reccomendations for a long term solution, we need to show landowners and governing bodies we are responsible.
I do not know the owner at DCBB, I think before we post a sign we need to get our plan together and have more than one person communicating with him.
I also think we need this to cover all of our other launches if possible, imagine loosing strawbs?
I do like that most everyone is keeping a cival tone here, like marty said lets keep the ideas coming.

[PeterMiller]

Aframe Sign

The A Frame signs "Temporary Signs" are a area 2ft x 3ft cost is $160.00 complete with both sides done with graphics
We need to work on the verbage
Permanent signs 2ft x 2 ft I will donate signs for Willard, Lincon and Deer Creek.
Also we are about 90 days out from the snow I would really like for all of us to give some thought
about kite set up areas and comming up with a solution for kite lines and snowmobiles.