Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

[Erik Holmgren]

Marty/Dean-my thoughts exactly when I made the suggestion for the page.

Id like to also say that in the future, at any launch if we ever experience such obvious, blatant hostility, aggression, verbal assault without provocation, and ESPECIALLY if we have good reason to believe alcohol is involved, that we call the police/sheriffs department and have them handle it. Chris was incredibly controlled, polite, and gracious during the incident in spite of all Kelly could do to provoke him into less professional and controlled behavior... but if we had an officers report to back up the multitude of eyewitness reports, we probably wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now, having to fight to disprove flagrantly false and misleading claims/ blatant lies to keep access to the best kite launch in the state.

Another thing that should be brought up with these officials in the letters that are written should be the audience that witnessed and overheard kelly's eruption. There were several young kids within earshot, and a woman with one of the families out by the boat ramp leaving the lake looked absolutely horrified when Kelly began screaming obscenities. Its bad enough to direct such behavior towards adult men, but it is far, far worse to exhibit such behavior around women and children

[Mark Johnson]

When I say private. I mean to members of the UWA and not State or County Officials. A locked forum just like the (Where to ride section) we have here. I do beleive we do need to all have a voice here and consider all ideas good or bad. We do not have an open view to what the camp host and his bosses are talking about. I do not think it would be wise to let them in on our thoughts untill a plan has been agreed upon as a group.

[bordy]

We have already had a issue with the "voices"on our Forum When this thread turned into suggestions about ALL issues we felt we had a community it was read by Roger and Kelly, When I spoke with Kelly he brought up severel negitive things we listed on the forum, he would have not known about them if we had not posted them, Marty Texted me momments after I had posted some info and suggested I pull it, I did the same to Dean. It was for sure the correct move, but there were repercusions. Kelly mentioned Items from this thread. This guy is a wack Job, and he has internet at his trailer. I wish we were dealing with a Sane person here but we are not, He is a alc0holoic that thinks he is in a "fight" with us and is trying to do everything in his power to crush us, Chris and I have been amazed/surprised by the support his Boss has provided...

We should have had the Sheriff come both nights he assulted us becuase then we would not be in this scenerio.. It is unbealevable the Lies I have heard from this person, I welcome any of you to step in and try to solve this issue with us. Can we call the police and Fill a compaint after the fact? Can we call Media, as one memember suggested on the phone. This is truley a issue being cuased by one Drunk person, who has no problem lying about our issues and our behavior. We have been assulted by a parks employee, who is also a drunk, his boss beleaves anyone who calls to complain about this person is a lier????So then his Boss gives the Park Host the oppertunity to fix the problem with the "Kiters" and the park host suggestion is limit access-and numbers becuase as a group we are a gang that cuases more trouble and they way to deal with a gang is to break them up...

The issues is currently trying to Deal with how to maintain access to ULLB, who cares about anything else that goes on there if we are not allowed to kite there.. We have no need to prove how able we are to police ourself and what Orginizing body we pay into to approve anything if we can't gfo there.....???

Todd you are Pissed?????...Try sitting with the camp host for an hour listing to him Say how he has tryed to work with William about all these issues and William has not been helpful, I know he never spoke with WIlliam but he only know the Name William cuz that is who spoke with Roger......He bad mothed WIlliam, and Chris to me all while telling me how he has been polite in all of our dealings, I was there for it all and the story he tells he truley thinks he is the wal-mart greater,the dude is crazy, please do not even consider finding fault with anyone in the Kite community over Issue created by a drunk crazy guy, that would not benafit anyone.

Send a leter to the Commissioner, send one to the police dept, send one to the Media we need this to get fixed. We are not having issues about kiting here It is important that everyone know such, the Issue is this camp host and his Boss, Roger. Roger Beleaves we are Criminals that vandelize the Park and chase of other guest, He beleaves we take up to much from so that other can not enjoy the park, he beleaves we are threating his park host, with violance. He beleaves this all becuase his Camp Host has told him so...I beleave he has a previous relationship with his camp host and becuase they are buddy Buddy, or maybe related we have hit a brick wall with him.

Post what ever ideas you have to solve this issue, but lets not add full to the fire currently by creating other issue, please brainstorm as I mentioned before we are in trouble...

here is the county website with all the contact info you need.

ww.utahcountyonline.org

please, file your own complaint, Call Roger again, that guy is strange, he wanted us to stop calling becuase he doesn't want to deal with a problem, becuase we are criminals, and must be wroung.. let him know you are upset with his course of action ask for his Bosses info, remind him you called to fill a complent and your phone call was not returned, let him know how unprofessinal you were delt with.

I am at wits end..with this issue and how to solve the problem, we thought having only one Voice would be the correct move...this has not worked since the voice was called a lyer by the parks dept, we tryed to have several people call and complain, Roger just stopped answering the phone since we are just a Gang of peole willing to lie....Please come up with some ideas concerning this issue... we could use them!

[Marty Lowe]

I have totally missed all the camphost issues this fall.
I don't feel I can comment on that, when writing my letter to the county.
All I can state is that I have no reason to come to Utah county and spend money that adds to there sales taxes, if I am not going to be one of the 13 that can kite. And not being able to kite on the weekends, because I work during the week.

I am also pointing out that there are many Professionals and well educated people that are into this sport.
Not the "gangs" that appear to be portrayed by the camphost and his boss.

This issue is bigger than who is right or who is wrong.

We have a great community here, all the close friends I now have are from 24 years with the windriding community, every one!
(Vern and I went to college together, but the wind kept us friends)

Please don't let this polarize us.

Rigging next to the water, seems to me as the best solution to the whole issue.

[Marty Lowe]

Marty Texted me momments after I had posted some info and suggested I pull it, I did the same to Dean. It was for sure the correct move, but there were repercusions.

I saw this a little different, it sounds like I am trying to censor the forum, NOT...
I'm sure it was just the way it was worded


Todd posted some ideas that may need to be discussed
I agreed with him in my post
Billy posts that we should keep other issue to a minimum
I agreed with Billy
and sent texts to Todd and Billy that if Billy removes his post first
I can then remove my post
then Todd can remove his.
we all agreed
but before we could remove the 3 posts,
Mark posted, so our option was to just edit our 3 posts.
no harm, but as Billy said, there were repercussions.

I feel like trying to hide the discussions from "big brother"
leeds to worse things than the discussions them selves.

I believe there, we agree to dissagree.

[bordy]

This issue is bigger than who is right or who is wrong

I went to the camp host to apoligize, he didn't care.. I am going to share Tyler Lyons experence (with his permesion) with you all..

Rigging next to the water, seems to me as the best solution to the whole issue.


Amazingly when I asked the Camp host if he would like us to rig next to the water after telling him we would be happy to he said he had no problem with us rigging on the grass. I am very sure he wasn't drunk on the day I spoke with him and he said this. He says he has walked barefoot and gotten stuck with prickers all over the beach and understands why would not want to put a 2000 dollar kite on suce a surface.

[bordy]

This is Tylers very accure accounts of the Interactions we have had with the amp host for thoose of you who are wondering what happend to create this situation.


I write this letter both in concern and disappointment. I have been recreating in ut lake for over 20 years and have always enjoyed using the state parks and state provided facilities. Over the past 6 years I have spent. Great deal of time at Lincoln beach and it facilities. I have greatly enjoy the grass and wonderful hospitality of both the regular visits from the police and public officials that have kept lincoln beach a safe place to enjoy the beautiful venue that we have. I am an avid sailor and fisherman. I have enjoyed lincoln because of how much protection the area provides while I am sailing. I have spent more than three days a week in this park all summer long for many many years, and have had nothing but great experiences and stories to share with people about both the facilities and the people that support them!
However this summer has been very very different; I have found my self dreading the experiences that I have had and also thinking that I will not return do to the behavior of one individual. This individual is the currently appointed camp host. He has caused many moments of anxiety and anger in the past few months. The first thing that I feel that I need to discuss is that on multiple occasions I have seen this individual drinking alcoholic beverages while doing his job which i know is against state park rules. While that is not ok I would not normally be bothered by it. However once he has started drinking he becomes very very aggressive and abrasive. The first encounter that I had with him was while I was setting up my sailing equipment, he ran from his camper and approached a person who had their dog off the leash (also against the rules) and started his sentence with( I apologies for this language but it is his direct quote) "CAN YOU NOT READ THE FUCKING SIGNS? PUT YOUR FUCKING DOG ON A LEASH OR I WILL FORCE YOU TO LEAVE THE FUCKING PARK" while this is what he said his body language toward this individual showed great aggression and threatened violence. I was very concerned and disturbed by this event but felt as though it was not my place to intervene. About a week later while I was setting up my sailing equipment once more he approached me very dominantly and forcefully said " YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT HERE AND IF I WANT TO I CAN MAKE YOU LEAVE" I questioned him on why and where the rules were located. He showed me a printed sign that stated, no rock walls carnival rides or large blow up toys. He stated that because my sailing equipment has a portion that is required to inflate( much like an inflatable raft) that I was not allowed unless he so chose. I then stated that I would be happy to call the police and have them interpret the rules and better clarify the situation. He became very submissive and said no need to do that I will not be making you leave. After spending nearly thirty minutes deciding if I was going to be able to sail I headed for the water and finished my evening. The next incident that I describe is one of the most disturbing and concerning things I have ever seen by a public employee. this is what he did and said while running in rage "I AM THE MOTHER FUCKING CAMP HOST WHO THE flip! IS THROWING FUCKING BALLS AT MY FUCKING TABLES? WHO THE flip! IS IT HUH? WAS IT FUCKING YOU?( pointing at people and jabbing his finger into their chest and screaming at their face) "WHO THE flip! DID IT?" one individual spoke up from a group and said that it was him, the camp host grabbed him and started pulling him by the arm into the road, when the individual pulled away and said " you need to calm down right now, the camp host got even more in raged and said, " I AM IN FUCKING CHARGE AND YOU WILL DO WHATEVER flip! I SAY" the individual then said I don't think That is how it works, the camp host then said "YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE FUCKING TABLE GIVE ME YOUR FUCKING INFORMATION NOW!" The individual then said I will give you my information however I think you need to calm down now and take a step back from me. The camp host did and the started back into another fit of rage about how he was paying for the table and that he was in charge. The individual then suggest the police come down and review the situation and the camp host backed down. And suggested that he called his boss and the individual agreed to such a course of action and the conflict moved far enough away I could no longer hear what happened.the next day when I went to use the restroom I found that the camp host had locked them and would not unlock them? I am not sure why but I found it to be very inconsiderate.

Once more I write you only out of concern for both my safety and the safety of others. I have always enjoyed what you and your staff have done for me and the community! I hope that I can continue to express to people how much fun it is to use the facilities and parks that you and your staff have done a truly amazing job on! Please know that I appreciate that you would take the time to read this and to act on creating a solution that will help to improve the current situation at Lincoln beach!

Sent from my iPad



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[bordy]

This is Chris Gainers letter accounts posted with permission.

First off, thank you for all that you do. I know that often, difficult jobs are thankless. Utah County is a great place to live and I know that is directly related to a job well done by local leaders.
I am addressing this letter to you because my, and the complaints of many people with whom I recreate addressed to Roger last name and job title (the person I have been told is in charge of Lincoln beach) have been tossed aside and ignored (More on this later).
I enjoy many of the State Parks in Utah for various types of recreation. I am a kiteboarder, a fisherman, and a scuba diver. One of the places I frequent during the summer evenings is Lincoln beach State Park. My main activity at Lincoln Beach is kiteboarding (a type of sailing which uses a kite as a sail to harness the power of the wind). I use Lincoln Beach to do this because of the safety it provides, as well as the fact that in the summer months it consistently receives wind in the evenings. It has long been hailed as the best place in Utah to kiteboard. I have been kiteboarding at Lincoln Beach for the past three years. This year my wife learned the sport and we have started bringing our 2 year old daughter with us. We take turns playing with our child in the water and beach area while the other one rides. Lincoln Beach is a place of gathering and fun for me and my family. It is also a place of gathering for many other people that participate in the sport of kiteboarding.
Earlier this summer I began witnessing dangerous and threatening behaviour exhibited by the current camp host (I believe his name is Kelly). I ignored it for longer than I should and his behavior is becoming a serious hinderance in my families enjoyment of the beach.
The camp host drinks alcoholic beverages (beer) while on the job and is often found carrying his beer can around, sipping it while having conversations. He then crosses the parking lot and throws his cans away in the dumpster. I assume it is when he is intoxicated but have no sure proof, but on many occasions I have witnessed him rampaging about, using obscene and violent language and screaming at people for things that could have more appropriately been addressed calmly, and for some unknown reason he has singled out kiteboarders to direct his anger. His threatening actions make me feel that it is unsafe to bring my family to Lincoln Beach. Though my witness of his dangerous behavior has been at least a weekly occurrence, I will here document only the times his actions have been recorded on our local communities forum (www.utahwindriders.com)

On July 25th the camp host aggresively approached me and one of my friends and told us we were not allowed to use Lincoln Beach for kiteboarding. When we asked him why he reffered us to a sign that prohibits the use of rock walls and large inflatable toys. Our conversation with the camp host involved him using the F word multiple times.


On August 17th the camp host came to speak with me while my wife was riding. This conversation was pleasant and I wondered if our problems were over. The only reason I reference it is that as we spoke face to face I was close enough to know for certain that the beverage in his cozy was beer.

On September 6th the camp host angrily approached a group of kiters who were waiting for the wind to start and yelled the F word loudly enough that my 2 year old daughter began saying it for her first time.

On Septemner 7th the camp host again was using the F word and other profanity. He then proceeded to lock the bathrooms which caused a problem because I am trying to potty train my child.

At this point 2 of our respected kiteboarders (Chris Sherwin, and Billy Bordy) called Roger to report the behavior of the camp host. Roger responded by saying that the camp host had reported to him that kiteboarders were criminals and vandals who should be banned from using the beach and that he was considering this action. He utterly refused to believe that the camp host was at fault in any way, and said we were lying about his drinking and aggression. When this was reported to our community, many of us called Roger to report our witnesses of the camp hosts behavior. After a few of us called he told his secretary not to take our calls anymore. After this we, as a community, decided that in order to be orginized, Billy Bordy, and Chris Sherwin should be our spokesman to Roger.
Last night, the camp host bitterly approached several kiteboarders and told them they had caused a lot of problems for him and that we were not allowed to use the grass in the park.
This morning, Chris Sherwin called Roger to again report the threatening way that the camp host approached the kiteboarders and was told by Roger that kiteboarding was going to be banned from taking place at Lincoln Beach. I do not know if he has this authority, but I write this email in concern for my access to a wonderful beach that I use with my family to do something that I love.
Over the course of the summer the camp host has apparently reported to Roger that kiteboarders have been involved in a slew of illegal and dangerous activity. Not only do I doubt his claims based on being at Lincoln Beach for a substantial amount of time this summer and not witnessing anything other than recreation, and also because peoples judgement tends to be a little off when they are intoxicated. If his claims have merit, I wonder why they have not been reported to anyone involved in such claims. I don't know exactly what his claims were, but when we spoke to Roger we were treated like criminals.
I am the owner of a local business, and until we had a child my wife taught middle school. I am an upstanding citizen and a respected member of my community. To think of losing access to Lincoln Beach hurts my heart, especially when I have done nothing wrong. If there have been rules broken by kiteboarders (which I am sure are nothing in comparison to being drunk and aggressive while representing the State), they should be dealt with on an individual basis instead of punishing a whole crowd, but as far as I can tell, most of what is happening is based on selective prejudice and discrimination which has lead to severe abuse of authority.
When I now go to Lincoln beach I am in fear for my safety and the safety of my family. Though to my knowledge, nobody has been physically abused by the camp host at this point, everything about his behavior leads me to believe that this is not far off.
My main concern is the safety of my family. Other than kiteboarding, my family also uses Lincoln Beach to swim and to fish. I am concerned not only because of my witness of the camp hosts behavior, but also because when we reported his behavior to his superior we were treated like liars and his actions, though our accounts were many, were doubted and likely ignored. Many kiteboarders were also denied the chance to report our experiences because Roger received more calls than he wanted to deal with. I do not know why Roger believes in the innocence of his camp host even though over 50 people would be willing to swear to the drunken and violent behavior that has been witnessed, but that is beside the point.
I have been told that Billy Bordy spoke to your secretary and that you will be speaking with him shortly, but I wanted to add my voice to his and express my concern with the situation that is at hand.
Thank you again for all that you do. I know that you are busy, and I am sorry I had to use so much of your time reading my wordy account, but I am grateful to live in a place where my voice counts and is heard.

[Todd Jacques]

[bordy]

[ChrisPSherwin]

We are all upset about the scenario and are working for a solution together. Much of what is normally met with a wink or a sense of humor is lost in this text. We are all on the same team. All of us.

If anyone wants to be irate - take it out on me. I am fully aware that my balls were the prime mover in this series of events. And I now know that my balls should not be played with in the pavilion. Done.

We do, however, have a deadline to meet and one thing to focus on at this moment. I know Kelly has been reading our forum, and that is why it was suggested that we have a private forum. It is frustrating to deal with someone like Kelly, but I am confident that our voice might finally be heard by reasonable people that are willing to listen soon.

Eyes on the prize.

[Marty Lowe]

I am fully aware that my balls were the prime mover in this series of events. And I now know that my balls should not be played with in the pavilion. Done.

Is it possible that Kelly is just pissed that he was not invited to play with your balls? ha

[Ralph Morrison]

Tyler and Chris G, Wow, those were great letters. Really heartfelt, open and honest.

So far we have been doing our best to fit in with the facillities that are there. I have never witnessed any act of malice or vandalizm. I can confidently say that the dented table was an accident, just like any picnicer dropping a cooler.

What suprizes me about this whole thing is how Roger and his assistant are trying to push Kelly's problem under the rug by putting the blame on kiters. Don't they know that the more they blame us, that more of the truth about Kelly is going to come out. The bigger stink they make of this, the more outside entities are going to be scrutinizing Roger's whole operation. What kind of a person would hire a drunk with no social skills to oversee a park? Why are they trying to protect him? What else is going on over there?

It should be obvious with all the calls and letters that this is very important to us. It's been suggested that we are willing to cooperate to make things work for all the users of the park. That's the easiest solution. I would say we are willing to put effort into this, but as it has been said, we are good for their local economy and they should be willing to do their share too.

It CAN work for everybody.

[bordy]

What suprizes me about this whole thing is how Roger and his assistant are trying to push Kelly's problem under the rug by putting the blame on kiters. Don't they know that the more they blame us, that more of the truth about Kelly is going to come out. The bigger stink they make of this, the more outside entities are going to be scrutinizing Roger's whole operation. What kind of a person would hire a drunk with no social skills to oversee a park? Why are they trying to protect him? What else is going on over there?



It CAN work for everybody.

These are the reason I have been so Zellous maybe even overzellous about this issue. Chris and I think there maybe a long time freindship or maybe familiy connection at work here. It truley sounds like we have opened a line of communication with someone not in this ackward loop in the parks dept. this has been a strange experence, with dead ends and insults to Chris the kiting community and myself. I am so please I spoke with a clerk at the county office who recommend speaking with the Larry, and gave me his contact info. I spent 3 minutes on the phone explaining what we have been dealing with she apoligize, and put wheels in motion, it was a huge breakthrough, after speaking with other indaviduals at length in the parks office and being scolded for our misrepresented behavior, she was a pleasure to deal with at the county office.

I beleave we should be able to enjoy the beach as we always have with out recourse. And thanks to amazing letters and help from the community this is a realistic option!

[MikE mAy]

IMHO i think the greater issue here is the camp hosts' bosses or even higher up. as a manger of 50 people, i find that it is very easy to go with the flow and oversee people's individual faults. perhaps is has been especially hard to find someone willing to do the camp hosts position for the wages they have available to them. i'm not saying its right but it obviously sounds like the camp host's boss knows he has been drinking while on the clock (a fireable offense as far as i'm concerned) and has his own behind and past managerial decisions to back up and support as well. as this dispute goes higher up the food chain, the camp hosts butt is also on the chopping block as he has been making the decisions to continue to employ this individual and it sounds like there is a potential for other poor decisions to come to light as well. this may get really dirty, but i believe if we stay on it and make sure that these guy's superiors are aware of the situation, which you have all done thanks to chris and billy, the situation will get resolved amicably. i also believe that there is a potential for more access if we play our cards right....


keep up the good work everyone!