Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

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Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby bordy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:57 pm

I had a conversation about the park host and the issues the Parks department has with Kiters. According to Roger, the parks manager, there has been some issues with kiters in the past including, broken trees, and damaged sprinkler heads from placing rocks on them to stop them from working, Roger says he has witnessed Kiters doing these things... and now the issue with the Bocce Ball game. Roger had no idea what Bocce Ball or Kiting was. I spent some very productive time on the phone with him discussing what a joy ULLB is for kiters and how hard we have worked to maintain it as such.

Now for the interesting news. First, the Park Host has some issues with us becuase of the broken sprinklers,trees and slightly minny dent in the table I told him you throw the balls and one took a bad bounce hit the table twice and everyone stopped playing in that area, and that it was truley a accedent. He asked If we would agree to not play Bocce in the Pavilion I of course agreed... I hope all will only play on the grass or dirt and be respectful of the property.

Second the park host is not being honest about the Issues and contact we have had with him, He claims he swore once at the group and said he was sorry, he also did not have a meeting yesterday as he told us but did have one this morning, They discussed banning kiters from ULLB, Roger does not think this is the proper course of action, but it seems as though the park host has painted such a negitive picture of us that Roger now thinks he may need to impose rules and maybe even limit our access. He mentioned that ULLB is a boating and picinic Park with Camp sites and that kites do not fit into the plan of the park, he said he was aware of how much space we take up and perhaps we needed to reserve the pavillion spot and pay for access. I mentioned to him we are sailers and would be devistated to lose access and offered work with him in any way we could to maintain access to ULLB. I urge anyone who has had contact with the Park host, or witnessed his behavior, to please call Roger and share their info. He feels as though the current Park Host has done a wonderful Job and We are the problem, He shared with me the Park host accounts of our incounters and we are clearly to blame from the Park Host and the parks depts. side. The Park host comments were not true at all...

This is ULLB we are talking about, this Park Host has placed us on the Radar and now we Must Deal with it.... Please Call Roger and share with him your side of your park host incounters, including Beer drinking, etc. Of course the host has sworn up and down we are lying about his behavior and his actions, Roger Made it clear unless he recived other input that his park host was the one who was right. Please speak with him and let him know how important a location ULLB is to our community. I gave Roger this site info and told him to feel free to use it as a resource. This may be the most important issue we have face as a kite community so far,

This is a super big deal and we need the community to work this out. Roger has no idea what kiting is and thinks it should not be part of ULLB plan... I think it is important to stress we use the park in the evening when there is very little usage and how little of a impact we truley have. PLease don't let us lose ULLB Roger said he would meet with his bosses soon to discuss the issue. Please call and help share your info with him before he goes into a meeting blind and makes a bad call......
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby bordy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:09 pm

Stop Calling,

I received info that Roger is swarmed with phone calls and would like to speak with some members directly. It seems that Banning has been moved low down the list, and we have opened a discussion that doesn't invole the Camp host as the judment factor. Nice Job community! Please stop calling Roger for now we are working on a solution and will keep everyone posted. We will have a discussion open at ULLB with kiters to put a plan together!
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby ChrisPSherwin » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:35 pm

Please stop calling Roger at the Parks Dept. He his being overwhelmed with phone calls. I talked to him for 15 minutes today. I write a full update tonight. If anyone has objections to me being one of Roger's point men for a while, please speak up now. Again, full update tonight, but PLEASE tell all you know to stop calling for the time being.

Banning kiting is one of Roger's options but it is "low on" his list of ways to deal with everything. One of his concerns is the amount of space that we take up, and I will prepare many rebuttals to that soon. It sounds like the issue with the camp host will be "resolved" soon.

Yes, Billy and I are in contact. The faster we stop calling, the better we look.
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Justin Libby » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:45 pm

I just called because i didn't see this post! I was there during both nights and experienced both instances. The operator (Becky??) asked us to STOP calling and the major players are at work! Thanks guys
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Marty Lowe » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Chris, you need to do this, as we found on the deal with Rush Lake,it works best to have one voice.
You have to deal with some real challenging personalities in your job at Deer Valley,
and I for one have all the faith in the world in your abilities.
Billy, you have done a great job also,.
Between the two, of you, I expect nothing but good to come from this.
Long live ULLB!!!!

Just one suggestion on the space issue.
why not rig in the dirt, by the water at the southeast end past the parking area.

The grass is nice, but really we take over when we are there.
Hardly any one uses that dirty spot,,, idunno, just a thought.

Marty
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby bordy » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:28 pm

Chris N I are on it. We have a bunch of solutions and are still discovering what the Issues are we need to deal with. We will keep you all posted. We have space Issues that we hope to cover with kite stacking and line tending. We also hope to us some images to show how well we can condese our gear. We have been very Coy about saftey issue and are positive we can prove our ability to police ourselves. We may look into a offer such as creating a launch landing site with privete fund...Umm Hello UWA... Maybe a little bribe. I am off to ULLB right now see you there.
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Postby Mark Johnson » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:38 pm

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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby ChrisPSherwin » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:15 pm

Hello all,

Thanks for your cooperation in dealing with this unfortunate and rather bizarre situation. Here's a quick recap of today's events. Billy talked to Roger, and basically Roger was under the impression that Kelly could do no wrong and was close to angelic. Billy posted that people please call, and it seemed to work. Thank you all who called. The picture that Kelly painted of us with Roger is so negative that I honestly question his sanity, or at least how he acts sober versus drinking, especially after he apologized to me the 1st night of Bocce conflict and indicated that all was well. The fact that he was ranting the next night about my need to pay $600 for the table seems to confirm his unpredictability.

When Billy hung up with Roger, he was using language like banning of kiting was a reasonable thing to do. Kelly was the one pushing for this. After the flood of calls, I think that Roger was starting to see the light by the time I called him. We talked for about 15 minutes and here is a brief recap and some recommendations.

Recap:
1) No Bocce Ball in the Pavilions - deal, no problem.
2) We need to be good neighbors. I explained that we have been for a number of years. That we clean up after pallet and couch burners, that we get out of BBQ and pavilion users' ways and that we are more than willing to help with park projects in the future.
3) Roger does not want to ban kiting at Lincoln. It IS an option, but is "low on" his list of ways to handle the problem. I'm still unclear as to what the problem is, but Roger has the following perceptions compliments of Kelly.
A) Kiters take up a lot of (too much) room. Billy and I have noted that when we show up, others are usually leaving due to the wind. Our kites can be stacked. We can launch from numerous places and minimize our foot print. I have also expressed that regardless of our footprint's current size, it has not interrupted others use of the park, and that if it had, we would have politely taken up less space.
B) Kiters place rocks on sprinkler heads to keep from getting sprayed, and they then break. I have never seen a kiter do this, and with the retiming of the sprinkler system, I think that problem (caused by campers?) is resolved.
C) Bocce Ball in the pavilions - again, done.

By the end of our conversation, Roger said he was "working on things" and that "banning is an option, but it's a long ways down the line." I am cautiously optimistic that we can work something out once they know the facts about kiting, and more specifically, OUR kiting group, and how great our membership is.

Until I hear more, here are my personal recommendations.

1) No bocce in pavilions. I personally would not stop playing completely as we are doing nothing wrong. I will take full responsibility for the damage to the table - which is fantastically minor. To the best of my knowledge, Roger has not seen the 1-2 millimeter dents, and may think that they are huge based on what Kelly is telling him
2) Look at the posted park rules and follow them.
3) Avoid jumping the jetty for a bit. (Ouch)
4) Follow all state laws while in the park. Drive 5 mph etc. I know we drive slowly in there, but I'm reiterating possible things that might make us look bad.
5) Don't put rocks on sprinklers. I don't think anyone was doing this, but let's be sure.
6) Say hi to non kiters, and spend some time talking to them. A friendly smile and conversation goes a long ways with fishermen, boaters and campers.
7) Get your arguments in order. I would like to be prepared with an answer for every possible issue that the park may have with us.
8- Prepare a letter in support of kiting and explaining how great / non invasive it is. How willing we are to help the park. How we usually kite when others are leaving due to the wind etc. Billy, if you would chime in here with ideas, that would be great. Please DO NOT send anything until we know exactly what we are dealing with, but be ready.
9) Blame me. I had no idea that my balls would cause so many problems.

Thanks for your current and continued support!
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Postby Mark Johnson » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:17 am

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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Chris G » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:15 am

A few of us kited. The host stayed in his trailer. The wind was pretty light until close to dark, then it kicked up a little.
-Chris
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Todd Jacques » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:22 am

Chris thanks to Billy and you for trying so hard!! :)))

Chris keep your balls to yourself!
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Marty Lowe » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:56 am

Keep up the good work
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby bordy » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:27 am

We are on it!
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby Mark Johnson » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:50 am

Can this thread be locked to members only?
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Re: Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

Postby DeanDavis » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:59 pm

DELETED
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