Utah Ski Archives Honors Dimitrije Milovich

[John Guay]

The University Of Utah Marriott Library has been preserving Utah Ski and Snowboard history for the past two decades. This year they awarded Dimitrije Milovich the History Maker Award for his development of the Winterstick and his impact on the sport of snowboarding. He gave a wonderful acceptance talk about the impact of snowboarding on skiing, skiing on snowboarding and how the two snowsports have meshed into snowplay. It's interesting that a lot of skiers also snowboard and vise versa but kiters and windsurfers don't seem to cross over as much. I met Dimitrije in the early windsurfing days and I remember him for the development of the wing mast and it's impact on windsurf sails. I wonder if we could get him to cross over to kite boarding and apply some of his creative energy there!

[JimSouthwick]

John,

I must respectfully disagree with your assertion that

... kiters and windsurfers don't seem to cross over as much.

Look around at Atlantis Beach! A very significant percentage of the kiters (including you) have crossed over from windsurfing. I would agree, however, that there appears to be very little traffic in the other direction. Your comparison of windsurfing vs. kiting with the skiing vs. snowboarding seems apt. Early in the history of snowboarding all of the cross over was from skiing to snowboarding. Currently it appears that a significant number of kids who started out as snowboarders are switching to skis. Perhaps in the future something comparable will happen on the water. In the meantime, please don't try to lure Dimitri to "the dark side"; our windsurfing ranks are depleted enough already!

[John Guay]

Hi Jim,

By crossover I'm speaking about kiters who still windsurf a bit and windsurfers who kite a bit. In watersports we seem to do one or the other. There are a lot of skiers who also snowboard and to a lesser number snowboarders who ski. Dimitrije's point was skiing and snowboarding have meshed to where the tools are more similar( fat and lots of shape) and the approach to the mountain is more similar. Kids are throwing the same tricks on their twin tips that snowboarders are.

[Jon Manwaring]

First off CONGRATULATIONS to Dimitri. You are a real innovator, inventor and all around Good Guy. Thanks for your efforts that have provided us ways to have more fun in the wind!
Now as far as the conundrum you present. I don't think we would ever come to a consensus as to which activity (SBvs Ski, KiteBvsSailB) is more fun, harder to learn and master, or whatever other items beg to be brought up and compared. An argument that's exciting to engage but not very productive. However, I think we might all agree, that even though related, SBvsSki are more like fraternal twins and where as KitevsSailB are like bothers by another mother. So not quite as similar as one might first expect. The snow people can travel together in a VW, If a Kiter and Windsurfer were to make a Gorge trip together, a Suburban would be needed. I think the sails/kites and boards are related in theory but practically, much different. Snow boards really resemble wide skis or vica-versa. My twin tip is not much like DCJim's big board. Unless size really matters . Sails/Kites share the same aerodynamic principles apply but application is again very different.
The costs involved to equip oneself for both snow sports is minimal,compared to what you would spent to have both kiting and boarding gear. This seems to me, the major hurdle to cross over.
Just a few, sort of off topic, thoughts while waiting for the DC thermal to get going.
JonMzee

[John Dubock]

Dimitri is somethin' else, mild mannered, super sailor, its a good thing he's so anti social, has his own secret beach at Lake Mojave so we don't bug him He has a raft of stories as to his many adventures, he's too humble to share.

For some us lucky to learn to windsurf in 1980 its not hard to accept kiting, just the gear cost is high, can't bring too many options to the beach. Plus there is something about dedicating so many years to windsurfing, you are always learning something new. Location matters too, if I lived in Corpus with shallow, hot water in steady wind I'd be more tempted to kite. Or in waves making crazy long runs at the ocean. I have to admit today's kiters make it look smooth and easy.

I'm at Snowbird each year and snowboards are rarely looking better than fat skis today as to big lines, but snowboards have their place.

[JimSouthwick]

Fun conversation! Which would not be happening if it were not for Dimitri; long time UWA members are no doubt aware that in addition to discovering several of our best windriding sites, Dimitri was responsible for setting up (and providing start up funding for) this website.

[Don Losee]

Dimitrije and his boards blessed my life. As a fourteen year old surfer/skater in 1977 my Winterstick and my Streetstick (Skateboard), launched me on a ride, and way of life that I am so thankful for.
Thanks Dimitri!

[Brian Kelm]

Of course, most Barnies think that it was Jake Burton who "invented" snowboarding but we all know it was our very own insanely brilliant trailblazer Dimitrije Milovich. Hats off Dimo, well deserved...

[DimitriMilovich]

Thanks for the very kind comments from John and my other wind colleagues. It was pretty brave of the Ski Archives to induct a boarder! Got some nice comments from a number of skiers there, afterward, who also dug the connection between the two sports. A former manager of Jackson Hole came up and told me how snowboarding had saved the ski industry, which had been suffering from an aging demographic.

Sorry I missed you at the dinner last week, John, it woulda been fun to say howdy and commiserate over the winding down of the sailing season. Much as I love the snow, it's always hard to stop sailing. You know, ever since I saw the Flexifoil-powered Tornado catamaran, Jacob's Ladder II, at the Weymouth Speed Trials in '83, I've always been intrigued with kite power. Link here: http://www.panduj.plus.com/jladder/jl.htm But, as far as crossing over myself - sadly, I barely get out windsurfing enough and just don't want to spend the time starting from scratch again. Might be the case for some of my windsurfing buds, too, I venture.

Now, Marty has told me, "just forget the water, Dimitri, go learn to kite on snow", and that may be the plan. But with skiing, snowboarding, backcountry, and now skate skiing (starting last year), I'm low on days again to try something new. But I used to go to Fairview Canyon a lot in the 80's, snowmobiling and snowboarding, it's gorgeous, so I should head up there or Strawberry on a "learn to kite" day and give it a shot. Lots of incentive there. For example, I was out at DC a couple weeks ago and Brian K. popped some big 4 or 5 second spinning big air right in front of me in not much wind at all, then buzzed around my non-planing self in, came over, and said hi on the water, (no doubt snickering at my schlogging!) and proving how versatile kites have become in the last 10 years. Way cool and a great show. I remember helping Klem launch his kite by the old house on the NW corner of Utah Lake about 15 years ago. Man, that was scary in the rip-rap there! So cool it's gotten so much more advanced and safer since those days. Plus - all that stuff fits in your trunk!

From an aero or hydro-dynamic view, the sports have much in common. The semi-rigidity of the inflatable spars is very cool. More to come in that area. I'm also sure, as fabric technology improves, and people are willing to pay more for very advanced materials, the kites will become yet more high performance. I always wonder about what's called the "skin drag" of big sails and big kites, since the surface areas are huge. (think of jibing a formula sail and how slow that is) Not a big effect, but it might be low hanging fruit. I remember Ken Winner doing some things with surface coating on his sails back when he was on the World Cup tour. Improved some, but always had to be reapplied. That's an area ripe for technology, perhaps some coating that will let the skin friction be reduced. Same for the bumps of sewing seams and perhaps even the shape of the lines. I suppose it's conceivable that some kind of airfoil-shaped lines might be developed, or perhaps just really tiny ones, which would have minimum drag, too. But the big power and efficiency gains are of course in the kite airfoil shapes, and I'm sure there will continue to be big improvements there as well, maybe something more rigid than just the inflatable spars, maybe a clever mixture of designs.

Funny again, as I said about skis in the ski archives talk I gave, all these present-day toys - kites, modern-day windsurfers and sails - probably could have been built 30 years ago. But no one had thought of them yet! Great time to be out playing, on whatever we sail.

[John Guay]

Hi Dimitri,

Thanks for posting and congratulations on your award. I really enjoyed listening to you tell your story and hear your perceptions on the evolution of snowboarding. If you ever get the itch to try kiting I would agree with Marty that snow is the way to learn. Kites are wonderful tools to explore the mountain and ride untracked powder all day long!

Cheers,
John

[Marty Lowe]

Dimo, your are my hero!

[Craig Goudie]

and I get street cred in all sorts of places when I mention I know you.

;*)

-Craig

[RickHeninger]

First of all if I weren't sitting in the CE all day, I would be out on Utah Lake!


Secondly, Dimitri you are my Gandolf the White! Congrats and well deserved, I know how meek you are about this stuff. My definition of meek btw, humility with presence of strength.

Thirdly, Snowkiting is a lot of fun to me, but I freaking love to windsurf, wish I could do more of it as well.

Fourth, Thank You John! Hearing Dmitri talk technology makes me think that an inflatable windsurf rig (sail and mast) might be right around the corner! And you might have just planted that seed!

Cheers!

Rick H.