Utah lake Lincoln Beach Ban????

[bordy]

I found out a little more info for thoose interested. The only issues we need to resolve (if any, it seems things have calmed down a bunch after the heaps of phone calls) with the folks from ULLB have to do with what happens out of the water, they run the beach and have nothing to do with what happens once we are wet. Just some info for some of the conversations we have had on the beach about water related issues. Again just a reminder that this is not the place to discuss these issues and brain storm, just to keep everyone up to date with the conversations we may or may not contiune to have with the ULLB folks. Currently it seems we are on the good guy list and hopefully should stay there.

[Kenny]

Billy,

Thank you for the update. Let's stay on the "good guy list" by showing goodwill whenever we go to Lincoln:
1. If we see trash on the ground, let's pick it up.
2. Let's keep our gear compact and stack kites.
3. Let's be polite to the other users.
4. Safety first in our launching and landing.

We have an awesome local crew!

Kenny

[dave holmgren]

I witnessed the incident where the host made accusations, belligerently demanded ID and $600. He seemed drunk. My statement of course means nothing without corroboration. IF (and I really hope there will not be any more incidents...) there are any more issues with the host, SOMEBODY might want to grab their GoPro and video the guys (and the involved kiters) behavior and actions. We've got the cameras, when/if a confrontation occurs, we should film it (and NOT post it, but give the file to Chris or Billy).

My two cents, and probably a little too late to help, but thought I'd mention it...

-Dave

[ChrisPSherwin]

I talked to Roger again today and things don't look so great. His current thought is that he can exercise any of the following options.

1) Limit the days that people can sail at ULLB. For example only M-Th.

2) Limit sailing to no busy weekends and holidays.

3) Limit the number of sailors that can sail at any given time. (Because that will keep us from taking up space near the pavilions? - makes no sense to me)

Roger can not believe that Kelly drinks / is drunk at work. He believes that we must be the problem since Kelly is not a problem to him. Both have contradicted themselves a number of times, and it seems like they just want "the problem" to go away. Currently they believes that kiters / kiting is "the problem." Full reasoning is only going so far here. Bottom line is Billy and I are fed up are creating other avenues of recourse.

In the meantime, Roger wants us to stay away from the pavilions and grass even though nobody else is there. I could not get a solid answer as to whether we should pay $30 for two people sitting at the picnic tables.

Roger claims that we destroy trees, damage sprinkler heads and take up a lot of space.

One thing that showed signs of life was me suggesting that we put down tarps and launch from the beach where nobody else goes. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THE PAVILIONS AND GRASS AND LAUNCH FROM THE BEACH.

If you can get video of Kelly being belligerent, drunk etc. please do so and let myself or Billy know about it asap.

More soon.

[bordy]

OK so tonight I went and spoke/apoligized to Kelly the camp host. He was very talkative and told me he truley beleaves we have "started a fight that he is going to win" He told me he spoke with his boss and he recomended that kiter be limited to 13 people a night becuase of the space we take up. I told him we can stack our kites and he said that would be great, and had no idea we could do so. He went on to tell me that last year there was a familiy reuion and that kiters chased them away, saying that kiters moved a bean bag game that some of the family was playing so they could pump up and that is part of the reason he doesn't like us as a group, he also went on to show me dents in several of the picinic tables claiming kiters were to blame for them, as well as a hole in a light that he blamed on us also, these are clearly not things we have done but for sure items he has told his boss Roger we have done, these are the items he claim started his beef with us. He also told me that we place rocks on sprinklerheads, Ride to close to fisherman causeing them to throw rocks at us etc...

I told him I could help police our group and would be happy to insure our foot print would be smaller, I asked him if he would prefer we pumped up on the other side of the road, he said if we could stack our kites and not intrude on the gazibo that would be great. but we could still use the grass to pump up as long as we were respectful. That was the major theme in his complaints with us, that our level of respect was sub par and he felt as though we needed to be corrected on a personal level. I told him we enjoyed all he has done for the park we all love so much, he is not a water guy and said he will not even go on a boat, I told him that the people there kiting love being there and are terrified to lose the sport they all love so much. He seemed to understand me, but said he had just had a meeting with Roger that morning were he reccomended 13 kiters max, only kiting on appvoed days, etc as Chris had listed before.

There is going to be a meeting in Jan or Feb with Utah county to discuss our future. This will be a open meeting and I have the contact info about it that I gained earlier in the day while talking with the Commissioners office.

Kelly has made it clear that he personally doesn't care for us as a group, I asked him several times what we could do to improve our realastion ship with him, he will be there in till oct. 15th.

His major concern was that we do not respect him, he told me of the issues he witnessed in the past, I was there for all of the conflict and what he told me was nothing like what truley happened but I assured him he would not have to deal with rude behavior from us again, according to him we have created this conflict and need to be punished for our action. When I mentioned a few bad apples should not spoil the bunch he disagreed.

The conversation ended with me again asking what we can do to make him happy, he responed with.

Stack our kites, take up as little room as possible, treat this launch like the event site in Hood river! This means winding up our lines and keeping our gear neat and tight. he said we can pump on the grass but not use the gazibo. PLEASE make this happen and tell others to do the same!

Respect Him, please go over and talk with him, Call him by Name let him know you are aware of the conflict he has with use and would like to stop it! Let him know you are stoked that he has done a good job keeping the trash, and fires etc down kill him with kindness. He has no understanding of kiting and since he is fearful of the water thinks it is useless, let him know how you feel, he is making rules for us with out any knowledge of our sport.

Stay out of the boat launch and flat water in the Marina, while the state is in charge of the Water the county and Kelly are in charge of the land, we need to please the camp host while on land.

I think I left him with a more positive out look of kiters then he had. I spoke with several people at the commisioners office and they will welcome letters with your own thoughts on the treatment we have recived at the Beach and your personal Idea and thoughts of recreating there.

There were many more topics we discussed that I will be happy to talk with anyone about, several are not fit for our forum but should be known. Please see me.

Lets please keep our stuff tight so we can prove we have "adjusted" to the camp hosts needs to prove we are a great community.

Thanks,
Billy

[Erik Holmgren]

Billy,

Please send me a message on the other issues on facebook, if possible.may be a good idea to create a closed utah kiter group, where only people with approval can join for discussing this sort of thing.

[Mark Johnson]

Yes, I agree with Erik, we do need another forum that is locked to members only to discuss anything that does not need to be seen publicly.

[bordy]

Hit me up on Facebook I have started a group to discuss out issues It is a "secret"group so no one but who I select can view or post in it.

[Josh Shirley]

A "secret" forum is possible but why?

[Todd Jacques]

[Todd Jacques]

[Mark Johnson]

Todds idea might or might not be a good idea. But this is the reason that this forum needs to be private. Should we not decide on one of these ideas yet give the state any bad ideas as to impose regulations that we may or may not need.

[Todd Jacques]

These are not my ideas. these are rules formulated by kiters in Austrailia to prevent the loss of launches. we should all get a wake up call and think very smart on how we procede. we need not be radical... We need to have a meeting this weekend at DCBB and get real? This could go quick as you just observed. Florida has the same problem as does California..

IMHO we should use this forum and the UWA as our voice. figure what you want about how to keep it private but there are a lot of good people here that love to ride wind. we need to take advanatage of the potential of all windriders in this group, leaders like craig, morton, marty, stuart, rick, josh, doug , vern, etc........

[Marty Lowe]

Mark,
I respectfully disagree that we need to keep issues private,
Lack of an open forum has not helped us in this issue so far.
We have to respect the knowledge base we have with all the UWA members.
Is not the main mission of UWA to preserve access for our sports?
Then we should use the many talented voices that we have here to help with a solution.

I know Chris and Billy are doing everything they can,
but someone may just have the magical idea to break through this situation,
but feels they are not welcome to speak up.

This closure could set a precedence that could affect every Utah windrider
Kiter, windsurfer, snowkite and all.

We need some input

Maybe we can locate the private property owners that surround ULLB,
like we did at Rush, and start a dialogue there.

edit,,
so I go to facebook and find that Mark has this same idea posted there,
Brian Doubock, can you help us find the property owners?

[DeanDavis]

I posted some of my thoughts on this topic a week ago (or so) and was very quickly lambasted for posting any ideas within this public forum since decision makers would be reading it and "brainstorm type" ideas could become requirements. I can't argue that that risk doesn't exist and so I quickly DELETED my post. I do think not having a private forum for "open" discussion is hurting us and I am sure is keeping a lot of people (who care deeply) from presenting opinions, options, thoughts or even wild ideas.

We don't need a "private" forum to limit ideas, we need a private forum so that wild ideas - which may have real value but which we don't want to be tied to - don't become rules or laws.

Dean